Scott Roeder Preliminary Hearing partial text

Scott Roeder Preliminary Hearing

9:22	We're waiting for Scott Roeder's preliminary hearing to begin. Roeder and his defense attorney are not in the courtroom yet, but prosecutors and several law enforcement officers are in the courtroom preparing for the hearing.

9:28

I just talked with Kim Parker, one of the prosecutors and Chief Deputy District Attorney for Sedgwick County. Parker tells me the gameplan for the morning is to try and get through five witnesses. Three of those will be witnesses from the church where Dr. Tiller was shot. Prosecutors also plan to call a coroner from the Sedgwick County Regional Forensics Center, Dr. Jaime Oeberst, and the head of the Wichita Police Department's Homicide Unit, Lt. Ken Landwehr.

9:31

Parker says the three witnesses from Dr. Tiller's church have asked their faces not be recorded or broadcast, though we'll be able to hear their testimony through our live video feed. While these witnesses are on the stand, you'll probably see a picture of Roeder or the prosecutor questioning the witness. One of the witnesses from the church will be Gary Hoepner. He actually saw the shot that killed Dr. Tiller. Hoepner did an interview with Eyewitness News yesterday.

9:32	Court is beginning.

9:34

Gary Hoepner is the first witness to take the stand. Hoepner told me yesterday that in all honesty, he's extremely nervous about testifying today. Hoepner says the last two months have been extremely emotional for him. He couldn't sleep for awhile after seeing Dr. Tiller shot, and he kept reliving the shooting.

9:37	Parker is showing pictures of Reformation Lutheran Church from the front and aerial views. Hoepner was an usher with Dr. Tiller when he was shot and says he attends almost every Sunday. He says he'd known Dr. Tiller for several years.

9:41

I've been asked a few times if the abortion issue would come up today. It's very unlikely. Prosecutors tell me today's testimony will focus on the basics of the crime and won't go off on tangents into abortion. I get the impression prosecutors don't want the abortion issue to ever be a part of the case, here at the prelim or otherwise.

9:44

Parker is questioning Hoepner. She points out the spot in aerial photographs where Hoepner parked his truck the day Dr. Tiller was shot. This is important because Hoepner was one of the men who chased Roeder from the church and tried to follow him. Hoepner says he was also the one who got a license plate number for Roeder's car and called 911.

9:46	Parker is showing Hoepner pictures from inside the church. Hoepner says when the shooting happened, the doors to the church had only just been shut and processional at the beginning of the church service was just starting.

9:49	Hoepner says he and Dr. Tiller were standing next to a welcome table in the foyer of the church. The table had some donuts on it, and the two were making small talk.

9:50	Hoepner says a door to the church opened and he recognized Roeder as a man who'd been at the church the Sunday before. Hoepner says Roeder had stepped out of the sanctuary to use the restroom the Sunday before, so he didn't think anything of this.

9:51	Hoepner says Roeder walked up to Dr. Tiller, put a gun to his head, and shot Tiller. Hoepner says he heard a pop. "I almost thought it might be a cap gun, but then George fell," says Hoepner, "and I thought, 'Oh my God!'"

9:52	"It just happened so fast, I don't know if I actually saw him squeeze the trigger," says Hoepner. "I saw him put the gun up to (Tiller's) head, though."

9:54	Parker asks about details of the shooting and the shooter. Hoepner again says he recognized the man from attending the previous Sunday's service. When Parker asks if Hoepner sees the man who shot Dr. Tiller in the courtroom today, Hoepner indicates Roeder.

9:57	Hoepner says he actually had his head down when Roeder came out of the sanctuary. Again, Hoepner says he didn't think anything of this because the previous Sunday, Roeder had done the same thing to use the restroom. "I looked up just in time to see him raise the gun to George's head," says Hoepner.

10:00

Hoepner says at one point on a previous Sunday, Roeder had left a note in the church's offering plate. Dr. Tiller didn't attend church that day.

10:04

Hoepner says Roeder immediately left the church, and he followed Roeder out. Hoepner says Roeder turned around and yelled, "I've got a gun, and I'll shoot you." Hoepner says he immediately stopped, but Roeder continued on. Hoepner says he then kept following Roeder at a distance and tried to get to his truck because that's where he'd left his cell phone.

10:06

Hoepner says Roeder never actually turned to point his gun at him. He says Roeder was running and yelled over his shoulder, "I've got a gun, and I'll shoot you."

10:09

Hoepner told me yesterday he's second-guessed himself over and over again since Dr. Tiller's murder. Hoepner told me he and Tiller were standing on opposite sides of the welcome table that had donuts on it. He says after the shooting, he kept thinking if he'd just done something like shoving the table to knock Tiller over, maybe that would have given them some time or distracted Roeder. Hoepner says he knows now there was nothing he could do to save Tiller.

10:20

Hoepner says Roeder twice said, "I've got a gun, and I'll shoot you." Hoepner says Roeder yelled that once at himself and another time at a second churchgoer.

10:24

Hoepner says when he got to his truck and his cell phone, he called 911. He saw the other churchgoer who'd chased Roeder throw a cup of coffe at the car Roeder was in. Hoepner says as Roeder's car drove away, he yelled, "Somebody get the tag number! Somebody get the tag number!" Hoepner says someone yelled back what was on Roeder's license plate, and he relayed that to the 911 dispatcher.

10:34

Direct examination of Gary Hoepner is finished. Roeder's defense attorney, Steve Osburn, is starting cross examination.

10:46

Osburn is going over the previous times Hoepner had seen Roeder at the church. They go over the previous Sunday when Roeder left the sanctuary to use the restroom. He also talks about Sundays when Roeder had left notes in the offering plate. Hoepner doesn't know specifically what was in the notes. Hoepner says he recognized Roeder mostly because he wasn't a regular member of Sunday services. After so many years attending Reformation Lutheran Church, he says he noticed new faces.

10:51

Osburn asks Hoepner if he agrees that much of this morning's testimony has been assumptions. As an example, Osburn uses the coffee another churchgoer through at Roeder's car. Hoepner says he doesn't know for sure what was in the churchgoer's cup was coffee, but that's what that man always drank on Sundays.

10:55

Hoepner is off the witness stand. We're into the morning recess. Court will be back in session at 11:10.

10:56

[Standby] Court is into the morning recess. Court will be back in session at 11:10.

11:13

Court is back in session. This morning's second witness is Thornton Anderson. He's another member of Reformation Lutheran Church.

11:16

Anderson says he was about five minutes late to church on May 31, the Sunday Dr. Tiller was killed. Anderson is describing where he parked before walking to the church.

11:19

Anderson says as he walked toward the church, he saw three people running from the church. From a distance, he recognized one of the men as Gary Hoepner. "They were yelling, 'Get his license plate number!'" says Anderson.

11:25

Anderson says one of the men got into his car and drove toward him to get away from the church. He says the car came within 8-10 feet of him before turning onto a main road near the church. Anderson says the car was going so fast, he didn't get a good look at the driver. He did see the Kansas license plate 225 BAB and yelled it back to his fellow churchgoers.

11:30

Anderson says after he gave Hoepner the license plate, he was told Dr. Tiller had been shot by the fleeing suspect. Anderson says Hoepner told him he'd seen Roeder in the church three or four times. Anderson says he believes he'd seen Roeder in the church two or three times.

11:30

11:31

Above is a picture of Scott Roeder, left, talking with one of his attorneys this morning.

11:40

Prosecutor Ann Swegle is taking Anderson through the specifics of seeing the car that drove by him and the license plate. She also asks him about previous Sundays when Anderson thinks he saw Roeder in church.

11:43

11:43

Above is another picture of Roeder in the courtroom. These photos are courtesy of photographer Jamie Oppenheimer of the Wichita Eagle. Oppenheimer is the pool photographer for still images today.

11:44

Anderson is now being cross examined by defense attorney Steve Osburn. I'll have to step downstairs to give our noon report soon. Updates the rest of the morning until the lunch break will be sporadic.

11:53

Anderson's cross examination is finished. Court is in recess for the lunch break. Court will likely be back in session at 1:30.

12:05

[Standby] Court is into the lunch break.

1:35	Court is back in session. Keith Martin is the first witness of the afternoon. He was at Reformation Lutheran Church the morning Dr. Tiller was shot.

1:55	Keith Martin was serving as an usher the day Dr. Tiller was shot. He says he saw and talked to Tiller several times that morning.

2:06	Martin says he was in the church foyer when Dr. Tiller was shot. He was looking out a window when he heard a loud pop he thought might be a firecracker. When he turned around, he saw Tiller on the ground.

2:10	Martin says he saw Roeder run out the door of the foyer, so Martin ran through the fellowship hall to cut him off. Running to the door through the fellowship hall was a shorter route to get to the parking lot.

2:18

Martin says people often interrupted church services at Reformation Lutheran Church because Tiller was a member. Martin says they'd see someone who wasn't a regular member and was acting strange. The interruptions happened often enough ushers and other members of the church often had a feel whether someone was simply visiting the church or might make a disturbance.

2:21	Martin says he remembers seeing Roeder months before Tiller was killed. Martin says he noticed Roeder since he wasn't a regular member and remembered Roeder because he smelled horribly. Martin says it was a very pungent ammonia smell.

2:23	After Roeder ran out of the church, Martin says he continued chasing him yelling, "How could you do that?" Martin says Roeder continued running, but yelled back over his shoulder either, "Murderer!" or, "Killer!"...Martin can't remember which.

2:25

Martin says as he chased Roeder, he came within about 15 feet of Roeder's car. Martin was standing in front of Roeder's car trying to make sure Roeder couldn't leave. When Roeder reached his door, Martin says the two men simply stopped and looked at each other. Martin says Roeder pulled out his gun again and said, "Move." "I thought he could and would shoot me," Martin says, "so I got out of the way so he could drive off."

2:30	Martin says after he got out of the way of Roeder's car and the car drove by him, Martin threw the cup of coffee he was still holding at Roeder's driver side window. "Why did you do that?" asks Sedgwick County District Attorney Nola Foulston. "I don't know," says Martin. "Just a gesture."

2:39	Martin is being cross examined.

2:45

Martin is going back over the disruptions that have occurred at Reformation Lutheran Church. He says the worst he remembers is 12 years ago when a group of people came into the service and tried to take the whole service over. Martin says the group tried to take over the organ playing and shove the pastor away from the pulpit. Martin describes several other incidents, including a small group of teenagers coming into the sanctuary and trying to take communion away from the church's deacons.

2:57	Defense attorneys question whether Martin ever heard Roeder actually threaten to shoot him. Martin says Roeder first told him to move, but he didn't. Martin says Roeder then pulled out his gun and said, "I'll shoot you." "That's when I got out of the way," says Martin.

3:02	Martin is off the stand. The rest of the witnesses today are likely to be law enforcement or other investigators.

3:05	Court is in recess for an afternoon break. Court will be back in session at 3:20.

3:09	[Standby] Court will be back in session at 3:20.

3:22	Dr. Jaime Oeberst of the Sedgwick County Regional Forensics Science Center is the next witness on the stand. Dr. Oeberst is the doctor who performed the autopsy on Dr. Tiller's body.

3:24	Prosecutors tell me Dr. Oeberst is the next-to-last witness. Lt. Ken Landwehr, the head of Wichita PD's Homicide Unit, will be the last witness of Scott Roeder's preliminary hearing. Prosecutors still believe they'll be able to wrap up this hearing today.

3:28	Dr. Oeberst says Dr. Tiller didn't have an exit wound in his head, and she was able to retrieve the bullet that killed him. Dr. Oeberst says there was a black bruise at the entrance wound, which she says is typical.

3:30	Dr. Oeberst is asked if she made a determination on the cause of death for Dr. Tiller. She says, "Gunshot wound to the head." Defense attorneys say they have no questions for Dr. Oeberst, and she's off the stand after only 7-8 minutes of testimony.

3:30	Wichita Police Lt. Ken Landwehr is the next witness on the stand.

3:32

Lt. Landwehr says he was not on duty the Sunday Tiller was killed. Landwehr received a phone call that a homicide occurred that morning. Landwehr says he called the other lieutenant who was on call that weekend and two or three of his other homicide detectives before heading to Reformation Lutheran Church.

3:34	Lt. Landwehr and prosecutor Kim Parker are going through pictures of the church.

3:40

Lt. Landwehr is describing pictures of Dr. Tiller's body before it was removed from the church. The pictures are on a TV screen in the courtroom. The TV is pointed away from cameras and will not be shown in our live video feed or in any of our on-air reports. Lt. Landwehr says Dr. Tiller was laying on his left side, fully-clothed, with a single bullet wound to the head.

3:46	Lt. Landwehr says the license plate description was run through Teletype to check and see if police could ID the shooter. The tag came back to a Scott Roeder from Marion, Kansas.

3:49

Once Lt. Landwehr says police identified Scott Roeder as a suspect, they put out an alert to all nearby law enforcement on what car and what individual to be on the lookout for. A couple of hours after Dr. Tiller was shot, Lt. Landwehr says a detective with the Johnson County Sheriff's Office contacted WPD. Landwehr says the detective said he was following the car put out in the WPD description and asked what Landwehr wanted him to do. "I instructed him to pull over the vehicle and take the individual into custody," says Lt. Landwehr.

3:49	Lt. Landwehr is off the stand after defense attorneys decide not to cross examine him. The state rests.

3:50	In closing statements, Sedgwick County District Attorney argues Scott Roeder be bound over for trial on one count of first degree murder and two counts of aggravated assault. Foulston tells the judge the state has met its burden. Defense attorneys do not have a closing statement.

3:51	Judge Warren Wilbert agrees there's enough evidence to send Scott Roeder to trial on all charges.

3:52	Judge Wilbert moves on to arraignment. Steven Osburn enters a not guilty plea on Scott Roeder's behalf. Judge Wilbert sets a jury trial date for September 21st, though murder trials are often continued to later dates.

3:53	Court is in recess. Roeder's bond will remain at $20 million.